Sectarianism Special Report: Scotland.

[1938 Observer]

Sectarianism Special Report: Bernard Ponsonby reflects on the roots of ‘Scotland’s shame’

In the first of a series of reports, STV’s Political Editor discovers the history behind the problem.
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By Bernard Ponsonby

26 July 2011 10:55 GMT

Sectarianism is defined by one online dictionary as "an excessive devotion to a particular sect, especially in religion". By that definition, the Pope is sectarian, as is the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and even the Tartan Army. By other dictionary definitions, none of the aforementioned are sectarian at all unless narrow-minded or bigoted. Confused? You are not alone. Scotland’s lawmakers can’t decide what it means either.


When politicians talk about sectarianism, they really mean criminal behaviour which is aggravated by prejudice based upon an individual’s religious or ethnic identity. Rather unhelpfully in Scotland, this tends to be looked at through the prism of football. Yet the crime statistics tell us that this is only part of the problem.

Section 74 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act deals with religiously aggravated crime. Figures published in 2006 reinforce an earlier study. Catholics are five times more likely to be the victims of such crime. Interestingly, in 70% of cases, football and parades with a religious or political overtone, had nothing to do with the crimes.

Michael McGrath, from the Scottish Catholic Church, said: "I think the figures confirm what we have been saying for some time. They are of concern to the church, to the Catholic community. More importantly, they should be of concern to Scots as a whole. It is a blight on Scotland that to be Catholic makes you more vulnerable to attack, aggression, violence."

The routes of religious tension lie in the split in the church. Catholicism was institutionally challenged when John Knox lead the Protestant Reformation, breaking formally with Rome in 1560.

Catholicism was then marginalised before Catholics became the victims of institutionalised discrimination. By the 19th century, opprobrium of religion became suspicion, even hatred, of the large number of Irish immigrants who came here and adhered to the Catholic faith.

Professor Tom Devine, of Edinburgh University, commented: "We reckon that in the mid-19th century, about a third of the incoming Irish were Protestant people. Ironically enough, it was ancestors who migrated to Ulster in the 17th century from south-west Scotland.

"They were God’s garrison against the papist Irish, and they brought with them as did the Catholic Irish, the decanting into west central Scotland, and parts of east central Scotland, the decanting of centuries old tribal tensions."

In 1923, the Church of Scotland produced a report called "The menace of the Irish race to Scotland". It was nakedly sectarian and is something the church has since apologised for. In the 1930s, the Scottish Protestant League won seats on Glasgow council. The legacy of those attitudes took a long time to recede.

"Learn from our mistakes"

Rt Rev David Arnott, the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, said: "I think in all honesty, we need to try and figure out ways of looking forward, asking ourselves the question what kind of society do we want in Scotland today and building on that, and learning from our mistakes in history.


"We need to get to know people as people. We need to get to know them not as Orangemen, or Roman Catholics, or whoever. Let’s see who we are as our neighbour and let’s learn to love our neighbour."

Educational advancement created a Catholic middle class which was to break down barriers within the professions. Legislative and social change also dealt with many of the issues where ordinary Catholics were experiencing prejudice in post-war Scotland.

Many Protestants believe that historical discrimination against Catholics has been used to camouflage that sectarianism is a two-way street. They also believe that it has been used to make those of the reformed faith feel guilty about their heritage and identity.

There is a paradox about sectarianism in modern Scotland. Attendances at religious services are at an all time low. Scottish national identity is now pre-eminent, unionism is a devalued currency compared to where it once was, and yet tribal attitudes anchored in religious and national identity play a large part in making our society more unpleasant.

For more information go to the link below for detail on other reports, and also the video.

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IN DETAIL

•Sectarianism Special Report Part 2: If the Old Firm were abolished, would sectarianism die out in Scotland?
•Sectarianism Special Report Part 3: Can the proposed new law make a difference?
•May 2011 government figures showing 10% increase in sectarian crimes
•June 2008 study of sectarianism in Glasgow
•Alex Salmond's statement on the football Joint Action group


http://news.stv.tv/politics/263810-s...otlands-shame/

[Kelly d]

Gordon,

Thank you for this article. I will stand my ground by saying a few of the original Lords of Scotland were making this above statement with Rosslyn Chapel. People insist there is a hidden code there but from my own personal experience, every carving represents every Christian denomination in that era.

[Caledonian]

Gordon,

Thank you for this article. I will stand my ground by saying a few of the original Lords of Scotland were making this above statement with Rosslyn Chapel. People insist there is a hidden code there but from my own personal experience, every carving represents every Christian denomination in that era.

Rosslyn Chapel was built in the 1450s as a Roman Catholic Church. This was before the Reformation; there was no other established Christian religion in Scotland or anywhere else at that time.

The Bishops of the Church in Scotland at this time were not likely to include in their plans carvings representing denominations that did not come into existence for another hundred years. They were burning Protestants alive well into the 1530s and 40s. They were barely acquainted with the Word of God and had become masters of every kind of extortion and depravity you could think of, and some that a lady of your own refinement could not possibly think of.

The article to which you are responding appears to be based on surveys carried out predominantly in Glasgow, one in a deprived estate and the other among youth gangs. Neither one represents the state of affairs in Scotland as a whole. What I can’t figure out is who is expecting to gain by stirring up all this nonsense. Could it be that being as it is the middle of the marching season for the Orangemen in Glasgow and Ulster some vested interests are provoking an incident?

If a mugger in Glasgow steals someone’s purse or wallet, is it likely that he/she will have done a background check to make sure the victim is a Catholic? Not hardly. Yet the reports referred to seem to suggest it is recorded as an anti-Catholic sectarian incident. The same incident appears to be sometimes recorded under three categories of sectarianism, so it is thereby included three times in the statistics, giving an exaggerated impression.

It is not that I am averse to your various proclivities but I hope you don’t take offence if I remark that you appear to have an unhealthy, dangerous even, fascination with unconventional and opaque groups with disturbing rituals who have a tendency to blur the senses and tempt one into the realms of fantasy and delusion.

Having said that I hope you keep up your level of input on this forum Kelly d, no one else comes close. Yours comments are always thought provoking though sometimes scary.

[miolchu]

I am by no means a religious scholar and have spent my life living in a country, that from its beginning (although not always successfully) espoused a separation of church and state.

That sectarianism exists, I have few doubts. That it springs from religious intolerance, I am not so sure. In northern Ireland during the 19th century, Catholics and Protestants, not adhering to the church of England were disenfranchised. As many of these individuals relocated to Scotland, the problem was exported to Scotland.

I am not confident that this was solely for the benefit of the Church of England but the result of the intermingling of Church and State. I find this somewhat ironic because it is my impression that the intermingling of Church and State in Europe was one of many precipitants of the reformation.

In the case of Northern Ireland, the UK had a secret weapon in the form of Lord Randolph Churchill, who introduced the "Orange Card", which distracted the working and middle classes from the the land owning and aristocratic classes by sowing a great deal of mistrust. This state of affairs has outlived its utility by more than a century. Lord Randolph's legacy continues to contrain opportunities for individuals to better their lives. Writing of the problem in terms solely of religious intolerance obscures developing solutions.

[Glesgalass]

Do they still have separate Catholic and Protestant public schools in Scotland? I've always thought this was a major breeding ground for religious intolerance. (in Northern Ireland too, I believe).

That's the first thing I'd ban. It's ridiculous that taxpayers fund the building of 2 schools in each area.

In Australia, if you want to send your child to a Catholic school, or any other denomination, you pay for it yourself.

Elda

[Kelly d]

The Bishops of the Church in Scotland at this time were not likely to include in their plans carvings representing denominations that did not come into existence for another hundred years. They were burning Protestants alive well into the 1530s and 40s. They were barely acquainted with the Word of God and had become masters of every kind of extortion and depravity you could think of, and some that a lady of your own refinement could not possibly think of.

I have always felt, Scots were extremely well educated as well as many of them had an extensive knowledge of the world. I have visited many Catholic churches and cathedrals yet never ran across the detailed work of Roslyn except for the ruins and abbeys of the churches in the St Andrew diocese.

I think I offer a very good hypothesis to the carvings. :)

[Ranald]

Do they still have separate Catholic and Protestant public schools in Scotland? I've always thought this was a major breeding ground for religious intolerance. (in Northern Ireland too, I believe).

That's the first thing I'd ban. It's ridiculous that taxpayers fund the building of 2 schools in each area.

In Australia, if you want to send your child to a Catholic school, or any other denomination, you pay for it yourself.

Elda

Elda

Yes they still DO have separate schools.

Here is a link to Schools in Scotland.
There is a lot of information, but you have to click for details.

http://www.schoolsnet.com/pls/hot_sc...&p_region_id=1

Falkirk Council area:
(you have to click on a school name for information)

http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/e...formation.aspx

Ranald

[Glesgalass]

Ranald,
I thought they still followed that stupid system. I repeat, it's ridiculous that taxpayers have to pay for a double system which only breeds religious bias and intolerance.
In my opinion it was also stupid for the British Army to send so many soldiers from the midlands of Scotland to Northern Ireland during the troubles. They had exactly the same bias as in Northern Ireland and could only excarberate the situation. I don't think the English Army bosses have ever understood that.
I've tried to explain the Catholic/Protestant thing to my kids but they just don't get it because they were brought up in Australia, thank God! They don't understand why! and I never did either!

Elda

[Kelly d]

Elda and Ranald,

Time for me to get my game face off. I have already been approached by Scots who ask me which football team I support. Then one was nice enough to explain the two differences! It again is Catholic vs Protestant.

I personally feel, the only way to stop hatred is by allowing other's to have social intercourse with different religions, ethnic groups, backgrounds and colour.

Alex Salmond passed a Bigotry law for Scotland pertaining to the internet and football clubs..I believe the law should be universal.

[sandyc]

Alex Salmond passed a Bigotry law for Scotland pertaining to the internet and football clubs..I believe the law should be universal.

Kelly, there was a plan to introduce a Law but it has been postponed, because it was being rushed and some thought needs go into any such thing.

Elda, we have been at this point before and I agree wholeheartedly about the separation of schools. This argument was raised just recently here as part of the discussions on Sectarianism. Of course the entrenched parties all had their "shout".
There are separate schools in Ontario and probably other provinces in Canada but the bigotry is not really present. The challenge that has been created is that now other religions want their own funded schools too. Because the situation exists I agree that they are entitled to their own schools.
Newfoundland used to have the same system but voted it out a few years ago, and that really surprised me because there is a large RC population there.

Sandy