BBC Article: Call for Scotland's New Police Force to be VAT Exempt

**miolchu** · 26th February 2012, 06:57

I had some difficulty getting my head around this article..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17167165

Could someone in the UK explain why a police force, a publicly funded institution would have to pay taxes...

**Alastair** · 26th February 2012, 16:15

From what I understand it's the VAT. So if they purchase a police car they pay VAT on it. LIkewise police uniforms and other iterms like stationary, etc. would all have VAT on them. As they don't sell anything they can't claim in back. Mind you I'm not sure what the individual police forces were expempt but as a single police force they aren't.

Alastair

**miolchu** · 26th February 2012, 20:17

Originally Posted by Alastair

From what I understand it's the VAT. So if they purchase a police car they pay VAT on it. LIkewise police uniforms and other iterms like stationary, etc. would all have VAT on them. As they don't sell anything they can't claim in back. Mind you I'm not sure what the individual police forces were expempt but as a single police force they aren't.

Alastair

That appears, to my American eyes, as a means of double dipping on the taxpayers....

**sandyc** · 26th February 2012, 20:29

Death and Taxes. The old bugbears. Not sure if any organisation in the UK is exempt from Taxes (probably direct government is). It's all about "paper money" with nothing to back it up.
I know in Ontario there are Tax breaks for Local Governments and Hospitals etc. but there is still the philosophy of money that does not really exist.

Sandy

**1938 Observer** · 26th February 2012, 22:10

Maybe the Police force should affilliate with a church organisation,

[ they do very little

] then, no taxes, run their own bingo nights to raise extra funds, give the polis good wages/conditions.

Then again, I'm a reactionary.

**sandyc** · 27th February 2012, 10:23

I suppose if they registered as a charity they would get tax breaks. Given some of the charities that exist the Polis may be seen as friendly after all...
Conceptually centralisation makes some sense but knowing Quasi Government organisations and the Plus abysmal policing we seem to have in Scotland just now, I do not thin this would be an improvement.
We have a local police office but when we call we get routed to Glasgow and then the message gets dispatched from there. The Polis Office is about 5 minutes from the main street but they always drive (when they actually get to any incident) and never seem to arrive in time. Intelligence based policing is a great buzzphrase but sometimes a good old fashioned beat coppers just cannot be beaten. Plus àppropriate punishment for the yobs - but then again that is a whole different story.
Sandy

**miolchu** · 27th February 2012, 18:27

Originally Posted by sandyc

sometimes a good old fashioned beat coppers just cannot be beaten. PSandy

I live in a profoundly rural area. Goshen county Wyoming covers an area of approximately 2,232 sq miles. It has a population of 13,249 or roughly 6 people per square mile. It has 4 municipal law enforcement angencies, a county sheriff's department and 4 Wyoming State Highway patrolmen stationed at various locations. Most officers follow a community based law enforcement model in that they spend a great deal of time interacting with the public. This pays the tax payers dividends when a crime is committed as most individuals know 1 or more officers who they feel comfortable reporting any observations enhancing each agencies ability to move forward in an investigation. Officers of the various agencies spend more time peforming public safety activities than law enforcment. I have been told on more than one occasion that to the extent they are successful in their public safety role, there is less law enforcment to perform. They might be on to something.

Perhaps if more agencies had the traditional 'flatfoot' out there, communities might look very different.

As far as the original VAT applying to law enforcement agencies, it still does not make sense. Law enforcement agencies are branches of either a municipal, state or national government. Taxing them is like a legislature funding a public agency then taking back a certain amount of their budget. I wonder what kind of effect this would have on their ability to maintain mission effectiveness over a fiscal year?

**sandyc** · 28th February 2012, 10:12

Originally Posted by miolchu

As far as the original VAT applying to law enforcement agencies, it still does not make sense. Law enforcement agencies are branches of either a municipal, state or national government. Taxing them is like a legislature funding a public agency then taking back a certain amount of their budget. I wonder what kind of effect this would have on their ability to maintain mission effectiveness over a fiscal year?

It is just a different business model. Thinking "outside the box" may change that but I doubt it. There is a lot more "money" in the system than can ever be repaid to creditors and this is just another part of the "carousel' (merry-go-round).

Sandy

**kndge9584** · 5th October 2012, 05:56

We have a local police office but when we call we get routed to Glasgow and then the message gets dispatched from there. The Polis Office is about 5 minutes from the main street but they always drive (when they actually get to any incident) and never seem to arrive in time. Intelligence based policing is a great buzzphrase but sometimes a good old fashioned beat coppers just cannot be beaten. Plus àppropriate punishment for the yobs - but then again that is a whole different story.

**Allennor** · 23rd October 2012, 23:31

IT THINK al the rules of vat are made for the benefit of local politicians as well as police the money which is paid through VAT goes into these fuckers pocket